Hot Water & Cook Top Wiring Questions

Hi guys. I'm Dan, and I'm in Knoxville, TN. I know running power to a shed is a very common topic here. I've been doing tons of reading and feel pretty comfortable with the requirements, but I have two questions I haven't been able to find a clear answer to.



First, my situation: I'm having a 10x16 shed built in my backyard, to be used primarily as a woodshop. I need more than a single circuit, so I know I need a subpanel and two grounding rods at least 6' apart, bonded to the subpanel with #6 bare copper wire.



My house has 200 amp service, and the main panel is in the garage at the opposite corner of the house from where the shed will go, so it would be pretty inconvenient to run a feeder from, there. But there's an existing 100 amp subpanel in the basement, presumably installed when the previous owner finished the basement. I'll be running a 60 amp feeder from that subpanel to the shed.



My total run will be something like 75', so I'm running #6 THWN for the two hots and neutral, and #10 THWN for the ground. I plan to bury it in 1.25" schedule 40 PVC, buried 18" deep.



My first question relates to how I need to run the wire when it's not underground. The basement is finished with a drop ceiling, so I plan to run the feeder across the drop ceiling, out of the house, down to the ground (it's a walk-out basement), then underground the 26' to the shed. I assume it still needs to be in conduit for at least the part that runs up the wall of the house. But what about inside, when it runs through the drop ceiling to the panel? Does it need to be in conduit for the whole run? Or would I just staple the four wires to the joists or something?



The other question relates to the trench. I've got a rain gutter downspout that discharges right at where the shed will soon be, so I'm running a 40' length of 4" PVC to pipe that water past the shed. It will be buried just about 6-12", just enough to run under the shed. Can I run the power conduit in the same trench (obviously, deeper)? Presumably I'd dig the 18" trench to the shed, lay the schedule 40, then add a few inches of dirt to bring it up to about 12" deep, and extend the trench past the shed at that depth, then lay the 4" drain pipe and backfill. Or do I need to dig two separate trenches? Is there a rule about how far apart they need to be if so?



If anyone sees any other flaws or concerns with my plan, please do speak up, I want to do this right. Thanks!



Dan
      

I'm having quite the time finding an electrician who will quote this.  Just about all of them say that what I need is to upgrade my main panel but I want to install a new main panel that is a part of the meter base outside and make my current 100A panel a sub.   Maybe you people can tell me why nobody seems to want to do this.  Here are a few shots of the existing meter (note what is apparently a 60A base here)






and a shot of the conduit headed underground.  Like most homes built during this era, the conduit makes a right turn underground to enter through the cinderblock, ending up coming into the back of the main panel.  This conduit encloses a 4 wire feed. edit: no, actually it is only a 3 wire feed which is a problem if I want to convert the original main panel a sub.






Here's the existing panel.  It's a 60's era Square-D split panel with a 30 amp sub panel for the finished basement.  Those are low voltage wires to circuit taps for my home energy monitoring system btw.






The reason I don't want to upgrade this panel are as follows:

We won't be expanding the electrical west of this panel any more.  All planned expansion (240v car charger in Garage, planned 3 season room with grid tie Solar on the roof) will be to the east.


Upgrading the panel will require major surgery to the walls.  Due to the way the original basement is engineered there, the walls have an intricate stud pattern behind the existing panel.  I'd pretty much have to rip out a 4' section and redo it to make the access large enough to handle a 200A panel.


Adding additional circuits to an upgraded panel will require an act of God due to the finished basement construction.  There are no raceways for additional circuits.






Based on this, my thoughts were to create a new 200A main panel outside based on something like the GE model TSM420CSCUP loadcenter.  Here's a shot of this panel:






This particular panel has room for three 2-pole breakers in addition to the 200A mains.  I'd add a 100A 2-pole breaker for the existing panel, with the other two reserved for the garage/solar expansions.



The issue with the contractors who have quoted the job appears to be the conduit going to the existing panel.  I'm not sure what's wrong with it but it is apparently not compliant with current code.  Obviously the bonding needs to change, new grounding electrodes need to be driven, and a water pipe ground needs to be established to the new main panel, but what else is required?



I'd like to throughly research all the code considerations here so I can approach a contractor from a more knowledgable perspective then determine the best way to perform this upgrade.  Due to POCO coordination and the need to cut household power for the duration of the job, I have no desire to DIY this one...



So what exactly is wrong with the conduit running from the existing meter base to the existing load center?  Why is everybody telling me that I can't do essentially what I've described above?  What are the relevant code sections that will apply to this job?  Should I be chatting with my AHJ about local considerations now or should I wait until I have the code requirements down pat (assuming the latter here)?
      

Hello all,

I recently installed an old elevator winch onto my pier to use as a boat lift. It's wired as 220v and it only draws 6 amps under full load. There are 3 wires supplying the winch, two hot wires and a ground / neutral. As you can probably tell, I'm not an electrician...



Well, I finished wiring it all up and tested it out. It worked great. When it got dark, I started pulling my aluminum ladder out of the water and I noticed that the cable coming off of the winch was lightly arcing on the ladder as they touched. I unplugged the winch and the arcing went away. Something is obviously wrong and needs to be fixed. I can touch the winch and cable without feeling any electrical shock, but I'm standing on a wooden pier deck. I guess since the ladder was still partly in the water, it was acting as a ground. What can I do to stop this? Can I add a ground rod? Will this ground rod have to be on land? Will a ground rod even solve the problem, or is it more like a band-aid? Can anyone tell me what's causing the problem? I'd like to swim in the water, but I'd prefer to stay alive...



If you guys need any more info to help me out, I'll be as quick as possible. I'd like to get this boat lift safe before I use it or swim.



Thanks,

Patrick
      

Need to run wire for automatic horse waterers (1.3 amps each) to an open field about 350' away from the barn.



Ran 14/2 UF wire to 3 waterers inside the barn.

350' away from barn, is #10 wire OK for such a small load (1.3 amps for each waterer - 3 waterers in the field)? or do I need #8?



In the field, need to run to 3 separate wateres, so I think I need a subpanel out in the field...

How do I install the subpanel in an outdoor setting & what materials do I need?

If #10 wire is ok, I need 10/3 UF to run from the main panel to the subpanel - correct? Also, does the entire run need to be in conduit?

What size conduit if needed?

Is 18" deep enough?



What size breaker at the main panel?

What size breaker at the subpanel?--> only need to run 3 waterers (1.7 amps each) and maybe two separate circuits of outdoor receptacles...

What else is needed here? type of outdoor subpanel, grounding rods, etc...????



Thanks for the help!
      

In a 1950s home the electrical is being redone. Wallboard was removed in the kitchen and there is a kitchen sink drain/vent line (seems to be 1" to 1-1/2" pipe) in the wall which is made of steel. It runs down into the concrete slab and up through the roof. There is an old electrical outlet (which will be removed and replaced) next to it which has a 14/2 cable and a separate small ground conductor running to it. With a meter I measure 50V between the steel pipe and the steel housing of the receptacle. Once the old receptacle is removed and a new one is installed, where and how will the drain pipe be grounded? I am sure there are more steel drain pipes used in this house but not all of them are open and exposed. Will it be sufficient to ground this one steel drain/vent line? If yes how and with what conductor size?
      

My existing service entrance consists of an external Meter can mounted on the outside of the garage wall directly behind a SD Main Breaker Panel (MBP) with a 150 amp main breaker.  In order to support upgrades, I am installing a second MBP (200 amp) inside the garage in the wall cavity right next to the existing panel.



Local code requires that the upgraded Meter can be purchased from the City Utility.  I have already confirmed with the local inspector that either 4/0 Al or 2/0 Cu SE cable are acceptable for both the existing and new MBP.



My question is what is the code requirement for getting the 3 SE cables run from the dual lugs to the new panel?  Can those conductors run into the same wall cavity where the existing panel is installed?  If so, I'm certain they can't go through the same conduit nipple that connects the back of the meter can to the existing MBP.  Can they route in behind/above/below the existing panel and through a hole in the wall stud to gain access to the adjacent stud bay to get to the new panel?  If not, do they need to be routed out of the meter can on the external wall in conduit over to the next stud bay and then enter the wall there to gain access to the new panel?  If external conduit is required I would expect it must be metallic as opposed to PVC.



Best Regards,



Ted
      

I have a grounding question.  I am installing 400a service to my new home.  We ran 350MCM wire underground thru 3" conduit from the 2ndary terminal (moped) to the house into a 320A Cooper B-Line meter.  From the meter we ran 2 sets of 4/0-4/0-2/0 thru the wall to 2-200a breaker panels ("standard practice", according to my electrical supplier).  The ground wire (#4Cu bare) from the grounding rods comes up from the ground and we're curious if there has to be a special splice connecting the ground wire to each breaker panel or can we run thru one breaker panel to then next, say by connecting the ground wire to a ground bus on one panel and running that thru to the next with #4Cu bare or #6Cu in conductor.  Different electricians are suggesting different methods and the electrical inspector is unsure, but seems to be leaning towards the "special splice". Any feedback would be appreciated.
      

Our pool was installed 10 years ago and we need to change the 3 underwater lights because they are leaking. The cable for each light box goes through a conduit and up to a "deck Box" or junction box per code so water from pool can't run up to the box. In order to change the lights we need to locate the box and pull the wires out, then feed the wires through for the new light. The problem is that one of the boxes seems to be missing. That light sits under a stone waterfall and there is a planting area behind the waterfall. Ive searched under all the bushes and even done a bit of digging but cant find the box. I'm wondering if there is some smarter way to locate it.



I tried a metal detector but there were too many false alarms from every metal scrap the work men left behind. I was wondering if there is something that could be fed through the conduit to junction box that would send a signal allowing it to be located. I know the cesspool guys use something like that and thought maybe an electrician might have a similar tool.



The new lights are completely different than the old ones so we can't just change out one. if we can;t change this light we can;t change any of them and the whole project goes down the drain. Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated.
      

I had a previous thread about bonding my inground pool. I had it done yesterday. I set up all the plumbing for my filter and I am going to wire it up tomorrow.

This pump was wired up once before and it is being moved. All the wiring was removed when the contractors were breaking up the concrete. It has a 25 amp breaker that I am going to replace with a GFI 25 amp breaker. I am going to wire it from the breaker box to a switch (1 foot from the box) to the receptacle about 45 feet away. I am going to use 12 gauge solid wire. I am not sure which would be better. Should I use 12/3 romex and use one as the ground or use 3 separate wires colored white, black and green. Also they had the green wire going to the ground bar in the breaker box. I guess I will attach the green(ground) wire to the ground bar and then run it to the green lugs on each receptacle.  Also which types of boxes would be best to use metal or plastic. I am going to be using plastic pipe to run the wires.
      

First off im in So Cal. and a few months back my pool equipment stoped working after a rain storm. I have an underground conection that is accseible through a plastic box in the concrete. There is a water proof box there that housed the wiring as it runs from 220 breaker underground to the pool equip., I opened it to find it full of water. The short burned the wiring some where under some 60 feet of cement. I forgot to mention the wiring in existing conduit will not pull through have tried several times even as despreate as a come-along.



Ive had an electrician and Genral contractor both look at it and both said wiring is fried, but im looking for advice on my two options.



1st is cutting a trench in the cement about 60 to 70 feet from circuit breaker to pool equipment. Then using conduit the whole lenght like it was previously but no under ground box. Just two connections breacker & pool Equip.



2nd option the breaker is near my atic. run power from breaker through the house atic to where pops out on the other side of the house. would be about 50 feet through atic and about another 50 feet of conduit 25 above ground attached to eves and 25 below ground to pool equipment. This is a similar route as the gas line to pool equipment they will come out of atic about 20 feet apart then eventually follow similar path is this a problem?? I was told to use 12-3 Romex?? Suggestions on which route to take would be great. Atic is clearly easyer but concerend with closeness to gas line. Thanks before hand for the help